Talk:Delta Rana warship

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The title of this article may be considered provisional. It was the best of the names I came up with ("Douwd warship", "Kevin Uxbridge's warship", and "Unknown warship" just didn't sound right). Since the ship appeared in the Delta Rana system, in proximity of Delta Rana IV, and was created by a Douwd living on Delta Rana IV, Delta Rana warship seemed best.

The information on this page was written by Alan del Beccio, with grammatical changes by Furrykef and a very minor modification by myself. --From Andoria with Love 17:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

So where again is the discussion for moving this page? In favor of keeping it the way it was I present the following from the dialog and script:

• KEVIN: They came in a spaceship so big you could see it up in orbit. They took our world apart piece by piece.
• RIKER: Who?
• KEVIN: We don't know. We never saw their faces.

Later:

We see the gleaming hull of an immense and deadly-looking spaceship approaching Rana IV. We don't need to be told it's the ship that attacked the planet only weeks ago.

• DATA: Our vehicle classification index can put no identity to it. Its design is completely foreign.
• RIKER: But it's our boy -- roughly five times our mass and carrying enough armament to pulverize a planet.

With that said, I'm still not sure I see any justification for the separation of this from the original Husnock warship page. --Alan del Beccio 02:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course Riker et al. would say that at that point in the episode. They are specifically written as having no clue about the "true" nature of that ship - just as the audience, they are "supposed" to believe it is the Husnock ship that returns to attack. However, both the audience and the Enterprise crew find out later that this isn't the case, and Kevin even states:

• KEVIN: I tried to fool the Husnock as I tried to fool you, but it only made them angrier and more cruel.

This could mean that Kevin actually created a starship (the one we were seeing?) to fight against the Husnock. A hint for that migth be the fact that the ship changes configuration between appearances. We don't know either way, so we probably shouldn't make the connection and call this one a recreation of the Husnock ship. -- Cid Highwind 09:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm rather late in the game on this one, but the warship seen is referenced in countless places as a recreation of a Husnock warship. It should simply be called as such. -FleetCaptain 21:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I might suggest reading talk:Husnock warship, before reading the above. It is more conclusive in terms of analysis, than the supposition made by "countless places". --Alan 21:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I read the entire thing. My main source for calling it a Husnock warship is the Star Trek Encyclopedia, but yes there are some who state this is a dubious source. By the letter of the law, this could stand as is, but I think that is really picking apart bones to get more meat. Its just my opinion that this article should never have been split from the main one, but as I said it is rather late in the game as this happened months ago with no pressing need to change back right now. -FleetCaptain 21:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not pressing anything, I'm just trying to follow you and pin this conversation down on a single page. Also, as you can tell, I also attempted to keep the ship's together on a single page, judging from the above discussion, but spreading this article out over two pages and milking it for all it is work seems to be the prerogative of the majority. --Alan 21:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

This DOES need to be on a single page: "Husnock warship". We have Picard's "recreation" dialoge (CANON), as well as authoritative script instruction of intent that the ship predicted IS (at least visually) the Husnock warship.Capt Christopher Donovan 22:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you are only 'seeing' canon in the dialog that supports your side, as I made the same argument 6 months ago. Perhaps you should double check the evidence presented at talk:Husnock warship? Simply put, we don't know what a Husnock ship looks like, Picard doesn't know what a Husnock ship looks like, nor likely did anyone else in the Federation-- based on dialog, we just assume it is a Husnock ship because Kevin indicated something of the nature that fits the general description of the ship shown later in the episode-- but that description could just as easily describe a Borg cube, or judging by the scaling of the models, even a Warbird. The script simply describes the vessel as the one Kevin described, but Kevin was also being deceptive in his attempts to be left alone. Bottom line, sources like CCG and the Encyclopedia planted it in our heads that 'yes this is a Husnock warship', the evidence supports both sides. Do I think it is stupid that we have two articles on essentially the same topic? Yes. But really, there needs to be harder evidence than what I've presented above, and what you've since hastily reiterated. --Alan 10:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it is without a doubt the ship that the Enterprise saw was a recreation of a Husnock warship. The production and script notes are pretty clear about this and the art department of Paramount Pictures labeled the miniture as "Husnock ship". The only real question is whether or not the recreation made by Kevin was as powerful or perhaps even more powerful than the original. The abilities between the recreation and the original might be in question but the fact that what the Enterprise saw was a recreation of the same Husnock warship that attacked the colony is not, in my opinion. -FleetCaptain 06:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

(response to Alan above) You keep telling me to "look at the evidence" presented on the talk pages and I keep replying that there IS no evidence presented on those pages whatsoever. It's all a bunch of speculation about what Kevin may or may not have done.

Nevertheless, I am refraining from attempting any sort of merge to head off an edit war. I rewrote the "background" section of both articles to reflect what the canon/primary source evidence tells us, and that there is a controversy and speculation about what else may be in fact the case. We've done that on other articles with this type of controversy, so I'm content to let the matter rest at that.Capt Christopher Donovan 08:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This brings to mind a conversation I had with someone once where they were telling me that the four pips on Captain Picard's collar didnt mean he was a Captain but rather that he had 40 years of servive in Starfleet. The logic there was that no one has actually ever said in a Star Trek production "Captan Picard, I see that the four silver circular insignia on your uniform collar indicate that you are a Captain in the Starfleet". My response was that we don't need a character to say that since we have script notes, art department notes, and just plain common sense. Much the same here. Like Freud said: "Sometimes a cake is just a cake" (TNG: "Phantasms") -FleetCaptain 08:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The miniature was labeled as a "Husnock warship"? Hmm... that's news to me. That coupled with the reference in the Star Trek Encyclopedia seem to suggest it was the producers'/writers' intent for the ship to be a recreation of the Husnock warship. Maybe this does belong as part of the Husnock warship page. It would be better than keeping the potentially same ship on separate pages, especially one with a non-canon, "made-up" name. I'm not sure if the evidence is strong enough, but I would be okay with the two pages being merged back together. --From Andoria with Love 15:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)