Talk:Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

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Contents 1 Soviet Flag 2 contradiction? 3 Soviet Union reborn? 4 Citations 5 Future's End 6 References 7 Wrong Year?

[edit] Soviet Flag

Why was the Soviet flag removed?

Because (a) it has been nominated for deletion, and (b) it did not originate from a Trek source and is not really Trek relevant -- as reference to the flag was not verbally or visually described (as the nation flags mentioned on flags and banners were). Memory Alpha is not Wikipedia. Memory Alpha pages are (or should be) based (primarily, and in most cases, solely) on information drawn from Trek sources -- and in (most) cases, images (should be) drawn from screencaps. The incarnation of the Soviet flag shown on this page was not shown in the Star Trek universe (nor was it even mentioned). At most, an external link to flag of the Soviet Union would more than suffice. --Alan del Beccio 08:44, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] contradiction?

I honestly don't remember the episode well enough to make this change on my own, but the article states that:

In an alternate timeline, Lenin was murdered in 1916, and the Soviet Union was never formed. This led to a dramatically more powerful Nazi Germany, which was able to launch a successful invasion of the USSR and the United States.

So "the Soviet Union was never formed", an yet Nazi Germany was "able to launch a successful invasion" into it. If the information is contradictory in the episode, then its my mistake. But otherwise its a typo and I'm not sure which is correct. — THOR ^=/\= 19:32, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

It was never formed, but the Krauts invaded Russia.

Tsarist Russias capital was not Moscow it was Saint Petersburg

[edit] Soviet Union reborn?

In a discussion page for another article, someone pointed out the dedication plaque for the SS Tsiolkovsky Image:Tsiolkovsky plaque.jpg. I noticed something, it claims to have been launched from the USSR sometime in the 24th century. I think it should be noted somewhere in the article, as essentially the canon would seem to state thatthe Soviet Union reformed sometime before the 24th century. --OuroborosCobra 00:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's god willing ;)

-G

[edit] Citations

Guys, this is stupid - there doesnt need to be episode citations for REAL history. It wasnt Our Man Bashir that told us the KGB was the USSR's spy agency!! - (Unsigned, IP User: 70.52.160.102)

Citations aren't there so much for saying how we learned something, (this is for things from the real world at least) but when the somethinsg was mentioned on screen. That way someone can go back and find exactly what Star Trek said about it. - AJ Halliwell 06:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, good point. Sorry for deleting citations previously.

In addition, not everything in Star Trek history matches up with our own. If it did, we would have had a Eugenics Wars in 1996. Therefore, canon references need to be made so that we know that these areas of history are what happened in the Star Trek universe. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 16:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Future's End

In Future's End, when they travel to "our" time, Tom Paris thinks that there was still a USSR. Was this suposed to be a joke on this whole discontinuity with the USSR being mentioned in Trek?--UTS DeLorean 23:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. I think it was merely an attempt at how "out-dated" Paris was by using generic late 20th century references, like his use of the word "groovy" and so on.--Tim Thomason 23:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Just some USSR refs for future reference. Note, "Russia" does not equate "USSR," but "Soviet" does.--Tim Thomason 12-13 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Cage"

two maps on the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) library computer, likely outdated, but not explicitly stated, show the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" among nations of Earth.

"Wolf in the Fold"

One of the many stops of Redjac: "1974, Kiev, USSR, Earth, five women knifed to death."

"The Naked Now"

According to the SS Tsiolkovsky dedication plaque, the К.Э. Циолковский was launched from "Baikonur Cosmodrome, USSR, Earth." It was launched on stardate 40291.7, "confirming" that a "USSR" existed 272 years after its real-world dissolution.

"Our Man Bashir"

Hmmm... no direct references to the "USSR" or "Soviet" or even "communist." Episode features a KGB character, who apparently we are supposed to know is from the Soviet Union.

"Future's End"

Ahh... stated specifically in the episode. Tom Paris anachronistically claims that the USS Voyager "UFO" is actually a "Soviet spy satellite. Part of a massive KGB operation." Rain Robinson refutes this by saying "Soviet? The USSR broke up five years ago. The KGB doesn't even exist anymore." This of course is refuted by Tom with "That's what they'd like you to think." Of course, it's unlikely that Tom is basing that last sentence on any real history.

"In the Flesh"

One line (hard to find too) from Paris: "Back in the twentieth century the Soviets used to build American towns to train their agents to infiltrate the United States. Species 8472 could be doing the same thing."

"Carbon Creek"

Like OMB, no specific mentions of the USSR or Soviets in any way, which is admittedly weird for an ep set in 1957/1958. Sputnik is seen and mentioned, though.

"Storm Front, Part II"

According to Malcolm Reed's grasp of "history": "...without Lenin, the Bolsheviks never gained power. Russia didn't become Communist, and Germany never considered it a threat."

[edit] Wrong Year?

Around 1916, the Bolsheviks, and their leader Vladimir Lenin gained power over the nation of Russia, and helped form the USSR. (ENT: "Storm Front, Part II") This is definitely wrong. The Bolshviks gained power in Russia in 1917 and were not a relevant political power until spring-summer 1917. Was the ENT info wrong? ~ Martin Zuba

Are you mad? They were THE leading political party in Moscow and St. Petersburg, the industrial centers of Russia.

-G

No, he is not mad, he is correct. The revolution to overthrow the Czar did not even start until February 1917, and the Bolshevik revolution didn't come until October 1917 (hence the name "October Revolution"). ENT making the claim of 1916 is false in the real world. It should be noted, however, that there are many differences between the Trek timeline and the real world, unless I slept through the Eugenics Wars in 1996. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

No. The Bolsheviks (majority, hence the name) was the political force of the cities. They were only out numbered by the parties that were supported by the peasantry. That means the Bolsheviks had the greatest economic and military power. To say they were "obscure" is just propaganda.

-G

Yeah, I don't need your propaganda, thank you. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 04:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)